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Tesla's Toys

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AlexFantastico

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 786

Jun 21 10 7:59 PM

@EP: I was basing it on SoR's description of a Physical attacking Tesray... Seriously, it's a deathray pokemon, it can't get more phsical orientated without losing it's deathray, which would mean it's no longer a deathray pokemon O_o And it looks like the vote is currently mostly for Special Tesray anyway.

http://hypotheticus.yuku.com/

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Vagrant Lustoid

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 131

Jun 21 10 8:10 PM

So far I count: VL, EP, FoW in favour of keeping as is, and Greek, ShinE, Cacapulse and Alex in favour of changing it. I already know which way Flarsable will vote on it too, which is why i said there was no need for a vote as it's effectively decided before it begins. Also, the vote is inherently biased because anyone who comes into it without having read the arguments on why it should be this way see only "deathray" and "causes earthquakes" and thus automatically assumes it should be special and physical, as seems has occured with Cacapulse and ShinE. Hence another reason I knew it would be pointless to perform a vote.

Anyway, regarding Cacapulse's question on why it would be Tesray - physical and Tescilator - special, it's because of how the attacks are generated. Tesray's "deathray" is actually a machine that flings pieces of steel, solid, physical steel. Also, it has more kicking/slashing moves which are physical oriented. It's not a single-weapon creature. As for Tescilator, the reason I wanted to make it special is that it doesn't rely on its physical bodily strength to shake the ground. It's just a small machine that generates resonant frequencies that build up reflected vibrations to catastrophic levels. It's technical and fine-tuned in application, using sound waves/vibrations as its method of generation rather than brute strength, and thus I felt special was the better suitor of stats for that one.

Vagrant Lustoid

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 131

Jun 21 10 9:30 PM

So I've just worked out why I'm so against the swap to Tesray - Special/Tescilator - Physical. it's because it betrays the core concept I started with, which was "Tesla's creations". Turns out the use of the term deathray, as the media dubbed it, is misleading, as Tesla himself specifically stated it was not at all a 'deathray' as it does not rely on energy rays to inflict damage, due to the wasted energy this would cause. Hence the use of magnetism to hyperaccelerate metal to high speeds for great damage. Thusly, giving it Special-based attacks is deceptive and not at all what Tesla's creation was about.

This comes into even greater focus when examining the earthquake machine. It operates by using resonant frequencies, and was said to be so small it could fit in your pocket. It was never an application of brute strength, of physically striking hard enough to quake the earth, it was a reliance on science to achieve devastating effect with almost nothing. Thus, this design of Tescilator being a stomping animal which most people would assume at the first glance to cause earthquakes by its massive and powerful hooves is totally misleading. Damage is caused not by physical force but by resonant frequencies, where the teleforce causes its damage not by energy waves or heat or anything particularly special, it simply smashes solid metal into things at high speeds.

So there you go, that's why I really hate the idea of them being Tesray - Special and Tescilator - Physical. It goes completely against the most basic core concept I began with. In fact, given my more recent research we should really be calling Tesray Tesforce instead, according to tesla's wishes that his teleforce not be called a death ray.

This probably won't stop you guys from wanting to change them over, but by doing so you remove what was the core point of them in my initial thoughts. If you do that, then fine, I'll accept that, but just don't associate them with Tesla if you want to go down that path, since the end-evos would no longer resemble his inventions in anything but name. Rename them and you have your conventional Special and Physical attackers. I suggest Shokapi for Tescoil, Girayffa for Tesforce and Seismelo for Tescilator.

elementalpenguin

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Posts: 2712

Jun 21 10 9:36 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

Hmmm. I am determined to make Tesray Physical and Tescilator Special. I'm gonna do art. Tesilator first - I want to get resonance in there somehow. I think I'm gonna draw a slim giraffe with metal gauntlets that are also slim - the idea is that it would tap at a high enough rate to match the ground's natural frequency, and so it'll be very fast... yes, I'm inspired to do this.

RPG
Crys: Chrysice lvl 10, female
Powder Snow
Supersonic

Harden

Sargon: Nidoran Male, lvl 8
Leer
Peck

PARTNERS: Xer0 (Romulus)

Cacapulse

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Posts: 1460

Jun 22 10 1:36 AM

Pokémon Factory Worker

Now I feel like changing my mind after VL's display of loyalty to Tesla's inventions, as I didn't know a the time how they specifically work. We could make them slightly specialized mixed attackers if that will make everybody happy.

As I am typing this post, and after reading a few articles about Tesla myself (and remembering that Mythbusters episode about his Earthquake machine...), it got me thinking...
His 'Death Ray' shot out droplets of mercury (which is a liquid, i.e. Special in the pokeverse) like bullets (which makes it Physical?), but it was still powered by vast amounts of electricity. So I have a few suggestions, we could drop the Light-type if we're going all out loyal to the concept, that is, shooting metal propelled by electricity.
Also, is it possible if the [awesome sounding] signature move (Was it Teleforce?) was made so that it is a Physical move that is based on the user's Special Attack?

Now concerning that 'Earthquake Machine', it really doesn't cause Earthquakes through projecting any type energy, but it doesn't stomp the ground hard either. It taps an object quickly and repeatedly until the effects of resonance kick in and make the vibrations bigger and bigger until the whole thing the device is attached to falls apart.
I have no solid idea as to how to fix this particular situation, but we could still do a reverse of Teleforce for Worldshaker and make it a special move based off the Attack.
If we decide to apply that, Tesray would become a Physical Attacker of sorts but for only using its signature move, and the reverse can go for

This is starting to become a wall of text now, but I am compelled to continue...
Honestly, I really, really don't like mechanical pokemon. Mechanical in the sense that it looks and is explained to be completely manmade, which the end result of which is essentially a robot, sure there's things like Magnemite and Voltorb (I'm not sure about Gear, that thing just might break traditions, or not), but the games usually suggest they are still organic in origin.
The current designs suggest that they are normal giraffes, but with pieces of armor that are used as weapons attached to them. They are cyborgs, there are no other words to describe them, cyborgs. (I'm prepared that Steelacian could be used against this argument, but why argue at all if we can just decide on a better design on a pokemon that isn't approved yet?)
I'd actually like to do these some time, just not now.
(Wow, it did end up a wall of text, but I hope I expressed my thoughts well enough in one post.)

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Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Jun 22 10 3:56 AM

PF Executive

Vagrant Lustoid's arguments just won me over as well. If that's the way how Tesla's work, then the earthquake one should probably be special and the deathray one be physical. It is important to stay true to the things they're based off, after all.
Cacapulse's idea to make them mixed attackers could work as well, though.

Anyways, I'd like to side with Cacapulse here regarding the cyborg issue. They currently look way too much like giraffes with mechanical parts slapped onto them. That needs to be fixed into something that looks more natural.

Vagrant Lustoid

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 131

Jun 22 10 6:32 AM

Just my attempt at making Tesforce (as I am now calling him) a bit more beefy and like he could beat you to a pulp. Obviously the cannon/teleforce device is in the snout. A more obvious or longer snout may be needed to call more attention to the actual weapon, but he looks tough enough to roll in a physical battle. He sports a number of 'organic coils' or 'biological Van der Graff generators' to power the highly energy intensive teleforce weapon.

FoxOfWar

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 432

Jun 22 10 7:19 AM

VL's arguments made feel even more secure about where I stand with this.

I'll cook up the idea in day or two, I'd wager (got a big'ish graphical project of my own to first burn inspiration on, hehe) and draw these two(and still the prevolutions) - I will try to avoid having them look too much like just giraffes with tesla's designs tagged on; bit more "mechanical" than my original designs, but still very much like pokemon and not machine.

When life gives you lemons, you steal the sugar and put it on salt shakers.

Right?

SoR

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 299

Jun 22 10 7:56 AM

Oh crap! They can stand on two legs? I should have realized that from the start I guess. That makes cool ideas all the easier.

Flarsable

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 8827

Jun 22 10 11:02 AM

I'm all for Cacapulse's idea.

Award for Extreme Patience
Always hotter than the competition. I got the award for Braving the Marquee of Doom!

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ZeldaFan

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 922

Jun 22 10 12:01 PM

I think the most misleading part was in calling it a 'death ray'. I can see a cannon/gun-type weapon suiting a Physical attacker, and I can see a small generator-machine fitting a Special attacker.

Water/Wind Lvl. 5
Wind Absorb
Tackle
Bubble
Gust

Normal/Flying Lvl. 3
Keen Eye
Tackle
Growl

elementalpenguin

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Posts: 2712

Jun 22 10 12:49 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

Uhoh. If making them looks like giraffes with armor won't work...
*looks at design* Ah well, I'll show you guys when I'm done anyways.

Edit: Ehm. If cyborgs is not what we're going for... oh well, here you go:

This is Tescilator. The earthquake one. I looked up how Tesla's Oscillator works, and it was steam driven, so I gave it steam pistons that would move its feet remarkably fast. Sorry for bad artwork, I sorta hurried the shading. ^^;

RPG
Crys: Chrysice lvl 10, female
Powder Snow
Supersonic

Harden

Sargon: Nidoran Male, lvl 8
Leer
Peck

PARTNERS: Xer0 (Romulus)

Last Edited By: elementalpenguin Jun 22 10 2:19 PM. Edited 2 times.

Vagrant Lustoid

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 131

Jun 22 10 7:19 PM

If Tesforce isn't going to be Electric/Light anymore, do you guys think that with Tescilator being Electric/Ground it needs a new secondary type? At the moment the only ideas I can think of are Electric/Steel and Electric/Fighting, which are both pretty rare type combinations. Electric/Steel being that it would fire small tungsten projectiles and/or liquid mercury bullets as part of the Tesla-idea. Electric/Fighting being due to the conceptualised physical nature of Tesforce and the large number of close-combat physical attacks it gets in order to benefit as much as possible from the Sniper ability.

Flarsable

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 8827

Jun 22 10 7:26 PM

Which, IMO, it shouldn't have anymore because it's not a sniper.

Award for Extreme Patience
Always hotter than the competition. I got the award for Braving the Marquee of Doom!

elementalpenguin

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Posts: 2712

Jun 22 10 7:34 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

You don't need to be a sniper to have it... Drapion has it. I think it fits fine.
May I suggest some ability that is unique for Tescilator? Something that exemplifies resonance? Maybe an auto-metronome effect?

RPG
Crys: Chrysice lvl 10, female
Powder Snow
Supersonic

Harden

Sargon: Nidoran Male, lvl 8
Leer
Peck

PARTNERS: Xer0 (Romulus)

Cacapulse

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Posts: 1460

Jun 22 10 7:40 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

I'm planning to change my avatar's ability to something called Resonance, it's like a Flash Fire for Sound-based moves. I'm willing to allow non-legendaries to have that.

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elementalpenguin

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Posts: 2712

Jun 22 10 7:43 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

Except this has nothing to do with sound, but the scientific term Resonance which refers to the magnification due to vibration at an objects natural frequency. Sorry.

RPG
Crys: Chrysice lvl 10, female
Powder Snow
Supersonic

Harden

Sargon: Nidoran Male, lvl 8
Leer
Peck

PARTNERS: Xer0 (Romulus)

Vagrant Lustoid

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 131

Jun 22 10 7:46 PM

What do you mean it's not a sniper anymore Flars? It still has a cannon, it still shoots projectiles, it's still based on the Teleforce. There's no reason to say it's not a sniper. It meets the 'requirements' (and I use the term loosely) of being a sniper just as well as any of the seven Pokemon that already have the ability.

If you think the Sniper ability no longer suits it, then that's fine, but explain why you think that, and suggest alternatives. Just saying "Sniper isn't suited to it anymore" doesn't help as much though because I'm not aware of why you think that and can't make suitable alternative suggestions if necessary.

EDIT: So, what are people's thoughts on a secondary type for Tesforce? Is it necessary, given that the other final-stage evo is dual-typed? And if it is, what type would you suggest as the secondary?

Last Edited By: Vagrant Lustoid Jun 22 10 8:12 PM. Edited 2 times.

elementalpenguin

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Posts: 2712

Jun 22 10 8:00 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

I think Steel as a second type.

RPG
Crys: Chrysice lvl 10, female
Powder Snow
Supersonic

Harden

Sargon: Nidoran Male, lvl 8
Leer
Peck

PARTNERS: Xer0 (Romulus)

Cacapulse

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Posts: 1460

Jun 23 10 12:21 AM

Pokémon Factory Worker

elementalpenguin wrote:
Except this has nothing to do with sound, but the scientific term Resonance which refers to the magnification due to vibration at an objects natural frequency. Sorry.

Is it wrong if I was a little offended by that post? It's like you just ran a friendly suggestion through a shredder. I know what Resonance is, and that it doesn't always apply to sound; but the name works for me because I simplified the principle.

*sigh*

I'm getting tired of people with little imagination, people who make everything literal and exactly the same as to what would happen in real life; people who drain out all signs of creativity and replace it with pure, cold science. Don't get it the wrong way, science is great, I love science. But please, this is not a science documentary, this is all based on a light-hearted, and colorful world contained in a Japanese game.

I apologize for that outburst. But it was for a perfectly valid reason. Sorry.

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