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Character Debate in SSB Universe

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Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Apr 9 08 12:23 PM

PF Executive

I say two different characters. Although both are called Link, they're completely unrelated and live in an entirely different time.

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trogdor tamer

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 595

Apr 9 08 2:14 PM

Suggestions Board Regular

I second that opinion, however, while Toon Link and TP Link aren't related, Toon Link and OoT Link are.

I tame the burninators.

Here's how the Slakoth line really goes through evolution:

Slakoth drinks a Red Bull, causing it to get hyper and evolve into Vigoroth.
The caffeine rush ends, causing Vigoroth to evolve into Slaking.

Skwurilulu

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Posts: 155

Apr 9 08 7:04 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

They're both child versions of Link, and as far as I know (not having played the game) plays very similar to Young Link. I almost believe them to be the same in concept, but not the person.

BonzaiRob

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Posts: 2646

Apr 10 08 1:21 AM

Pokémon Factory VIP

Toon Link and OoT link aren't related :S

Link and Young Link in SSBM were the same character, the one Link from OoT (and Majora's Mask). Toon Link is the Hero of Winds (rather than Time) from the future of the older Link timeline; TP Link isn't Hero of anything (as far as I remember), but is from the future of the Young Link/Majora's Mask timeline.

soble92

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 4584

Apr 10 08 3:28 AM

Personally, I would say their the same. Their both younger versions of link, have practically the ssame moveset, and almost the same character design.

trogdor tamer

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Suggestions Board Regular

Posts: 595

Apr 11 08 8:49 PM

Suggestions Board Regular

Actually, TP Link is the Hero of Twilight. Also, Toon Link and Orcarina Link are related. It's one of the plot twist in the WW when Toon Link finds this out.

I tame the burninators.

Here's how the Slakoth line really goes through evolution:

Slakoth drinks a Red Bull, causing it to get hyper and evolve into Vigoroth.
The caffeine rush ends, causing Vigoroth to evolve into Slaking.

DeckuZora

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Posts: 2318

Apr 11 08 11:55 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

I made a timeline once, with my friend. Really hard and we couldn't work out every kink. As far as we got though, it's built like this (truely):

Ocarina of Time ----indirect prequel to Wind Waker which was a direct prequel to Phantom Hourglass
Majora's Mask --Direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and indirect prequel to Twilight Princess which came soon after, back in Hyrule
The Legend of Zelda --- Indirect sequel to all above games before Hero of Wind Storyline. (we used wikipedia.org and zelda.com for these)
Zelda II - Link's Awakening --- Direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda
Link to the Past -- Indirect sequel to Zelda II (really, since the map is Ocarina of Time/Four Swords based) --- Link's Awakening (both) -- direct sequel
Oracle of the Ages/Seasons --- direct sequels to Link's Awakening (just a note: Link's Awakening - to Oracle of Ages/Seasons all start with an already heroic Link, meaning that the Link to the Past Link was the hero for these stories.)
Four Swords -- direct sequel to Oracle of Ages/Seasons (again, same Link)
Four Sword Adventures -- direct sequel to Four Swords
Minish Cap -- Finally, this one is indirectly linked to four swords and probably took place just before the Great Sea from Wind Waker was created.

///////////////////////////////////
Now as far as the Heroes of ???? go:
Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask - Hero of Time
Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass - Hero of Winds
Twilight Princess - Hero of Twilight
/////////////////////////////////
Finally, they really could have made the two Link's much different (side B for Toon Link should have been Megaton Hammer and down B should've been something like Bombchu) but it's no big deal. They are VERY different in terms of reach, speed, jump, and movement.

New Signature Pending...

BonzaiRob

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Posts: 2646

Apr 12 08 12:51 AM

Pokémon Factory VIP

Hero of Winds and Hero of Time aren't related like in family, it's more accurate to say HoW carries on HoTi's spirit. That's the same for most Zelda games, though.

And one of the Nintendo bosses, maybe Miyamoto himself, confirmed in a few interviews that the Zelda timeline isn't linear - it splits off when OoT Link goes into the Temple of Time. Young Link leads to Majora's Mask and then on to Twilight Princess later on. It makes sense that most games go in the Young Link timeline. Wind Waker happens after Older Link defeats Ganondorf - he was already Hero of Time in WW's legend, and he defeated teh ev1l; Young Link pretty much just helped, so there wasn't much evil to speak of in that timeline.
Though I haven't actually completed OoT yet, which I need to do when I find the disc.

DeckuZora

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Posts: 2318

Apr 12 08 4:06 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

I played and beat Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Four Sword Adventures, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Twilight Princess and Minish Cap. Most of these are linked somehow to Ocarina of Time. Best Game Ever. Oh and yes, none of the heroes are related. That much is established. Link of Ordon (Twilight Princess) is an Ordinian. Not a Hylian and has never been to Hyrule in his life before being dragged there by the twilight realm. Link of Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time IS a Hylian but spent his childhood as a Kokiri. And also, I think Twilight Princess is a sequel to Ocarina of Time as well since the Temple of Time and the Lost Woods are both present - along with the Skull Kid. Minus Lost Woods, Ocarina of Time was the only game to have those places and characters. Also, must I say it (sorry about questioning you here, Bonzai) but how is Majora's Mask's YOUNG link related to the Ordinian Link of Twilight Princess? For one thing, Link of Twilight Princess was no hero in the beginning. He was also fully grown and thus, unlikely to be the future of Young Link.

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Gelatop

No.

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Posts: 2573

Apr 12 08 4:06 PM

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No, they're not related in any way. In fact, the only way you could relate them is the fact that Toon Link is just Young Link's replacement. Like Mewtwo to Lucario, and Roy to Ike. Sadly....

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DeckuZora

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Posts: 2318

Apr 12 08 4:07 PM

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DeckuZora wrote:
I played and beat Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Four Sword Adventures, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Twilight Princess and Minish Cap. Most of these are linked somehow to Ocarina of Time. Best Game Ever. Oh and yes, none of the heroes are related. That much is established. Link of Ordon (Twilight Princess) is an Ordinian. Not a Hylian and has never been to Hyrule in his life before being dragged there by the twilight realm. Link of Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time IS a Hylian but spent his childhood as a Kokiri. And also, I think Twilight Princess is a sequel to Ocarina of Time as well since the Temple of Time and the Lost Woods are both present - along with the Skull Kid. Minus Lost Woods, Ocarina of Time was the only game to have those places and characters. Also, must I say it (sorry about questioning you here, Bonzai) but how is Majora's Mask's YOUNG link related to the Ordinian Link of Twilight Princess? For one thing, Link of Twilight Princess was no hero in the beginning. He was also fully grown and thus, unlikely to be the future of Young Link.

Sorry, quoted since Gelatop replied two seconds after I did and no one would read mine unless they're like me and read the topic over again before typing.

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Poryhedron

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Posts: 3640

Apr 12 08 7:09 PM

Suggestions Board Manager

DeckuZora wrote:
I made a timeline once, with my friend. Really hard and we couldn't work out every kink. As far as we got though, it's built like this (truely):

The Legend of Zelda --- Indirect sequel to all above games before Hero of Wind Storyline. (we used wikipedia.org and zelda.com for these)
Zelda II - Link's Awakening --- Direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda
Link to the Past -- Indirect sequel to Zelda II (really, since the map is Ocarina of Time/Four Swords based) --- Link's Awakening (both) -- direct sequel

Impossible. LttP was the game in which Ganondorf originally changed his name to Ganon. He was Ganon in LoZ.

BonzaiRob

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Posts: 2646

Apr 13 08 3:44 AM

Pokémon Factory VIP

I wasn't saying that Ordonian Link is related to MM Link, just that the game follows on. 100 years later, like WW; WW and TP are parallel universes at roughly the same time. The Lost Woods and Skull Kid are what tells you it follows on from MM. Also, let me qute you some interviews:

Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.

Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?

Aonuma: From the end.

Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...

Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.

and this:

-When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

-And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. Link and Zelda left him be and he then did something outrageous, so it was decided that he should be executed. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

So, MM is 107 years after OoT, WW is 100. Ish.

Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Apr 13 08 3:56 AM

PF Executive

DeckuZora: the point is not that TP is not a sequel to OoT, it's that TP is in the timeline of OoT's Young Link, whereas TWW is in the timeline of OoT's Adult Link. Both Links dealt with the Lost Woods and the Temple of Time. As Bonzai said, Miyamoto confirmed the split time line.

Posting from Zelda fan-site The Hylia:

Eiji Aonuma stated that both The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess take place after Ocarina of Time. What was special is that he also said that while both were after Ocarina of Time, that The Wind Waker was a "parallel" to Twilight Princess - that it took place in another timeline. Aonuma went into further detail and explained that The Wind Waker takes place around 100 or so years after Adult Link defeated Ganon in Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess, however, took place after Link returned back in time, informed Zelda of Ganon's intentions, and eventually he was captured and brought to justice (leading to the backstory of Twilight Princess).

For more info: look here.

ShinEdit: nasty Bonzai, posting while I was in the middle of posting :P
Also, you mean TP (not MM) is 107 years later, TWW 100 years.

Also, OoT is in my opinion too, the best game ever! Bonzai, go and finish it :P

Last Edited By: Shining ShinE Apr 13 08 3:59 AM. Edited 1 times.

DeckuZora

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Posts: 2318

Apr 13 08 4:00 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

*laughs* I got three PF staff members on my case for this. ^^. I don't see any such problems and Bonzai and ShinE explained it pretty well. Poryhedron though... It does have some kinks in it (again I'll say it) but Link to the Past was definitely a sequel because wasn't it Agatha who resurrected Ganondorf? Listen and please hear this out. OOT - Link and Zelda seal Ganondorf of the Gerudo who became Ganon. Ganon is in the original who must've broken out of the seal the sages placed him in. He is defeated but doesn't appear in Zelda II. Then Agatha resurrects GANONDORF - not the beast, Ganon, but the man, Ganondorf. And the new Link beats him. The only way this works out is because of Agatha bringing Ganondorf to life. The opening sequence does state that a great evil that was sealed broke free or something like that (I'll have to play again).

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Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Apr 14 08 1:00 AM

PF Executive

Hm, on that site to which I linked it is stated that in each and every theory, ALttP is placed before LoZ; in fact it's one of the 'Timeline Principles'.

BonzaiRob

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Posts: 2646

Apr 14 08 11:54 AM

Pokémon Factory VIP

I need to fetch the disc, but yes, I'll finish it XD I was on the last big dungeon anyways. Ganon/dorf's castle.

And in my opinion, Wind Waker is the best Zelda game. Honestly, I much prefer it over OoT and the rest (although Majora's Mask was also pretty cool; I need to do that too).

Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Apr 14 08 12:10 PM

PF Executive

My order of preference (of the 3-D games, that is): OoT - TWW - MM - TP
I've seen debates over which one is better: TWW or TP.

*spoilers ahead*

I'll agree with those that say TWW. Anyone else feels that TP misses a certain Zelda-feel to it? It's so devoid of interesting characters; it's in fact the first Zelda I ever felt bored with, no matter how cool the City in the Sky (Sky Temple) is. There's too less communication with races, especially near the Mirror Shard dungeons: an empty desert; an enormous ice area, but only two yeti; an empty woods with Temple of Time; and even in the City of the Sky the Ooccoo aren't that cool since they don't speak... Same goes for most of Castle Town actually.
TWW was awesome (along with its control over the camera): cool temples, lots of races to actually interact with, and lots of nice hints to OoT. I love the cell-shaded look; it actually made things look more real, because the limits of realism weren't there. The winds, the blowing grass, pure beauty. The storyline was awesome too.
OoT just tops it because it starts the story, has such an epic feel, has the awesome gameplay of timetravelling, has lots of temples, and has all those interesting races, and the elemental temples. Time/Forest/Fire/Water/Shadow/Spirit. That's just cool. That's why the Wind and Earth temples are great too ^-^ I think I'll quit now :P

DeckuZora

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Posts: 2318

Apr 14 08 8:27 PM

Pokémon Factory Worker

I do wish the Twilight Princess had more of a cast but it was a REALLY brilliant story and the creativity was amazing. The background was wonderful and ever changing. I also have to agree that the cell shading feel of Wind Waker was nice (although I do prefer realism). And I should see that article. Send me a web link so I can fix up my timeline. ^^

New Signature Pending...

Shining ShinE

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Posts: 7573

Apr 15 08 1:26 AM

PF Executive

Look a few posts up for something underlined in blue :P I think that page is most helpful.

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